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PODCAST

Juggernaut 2: The Story of the Fourth National Government

After the tempestuous 80s, New Zealand wanted that cup of tea and a lie down. Instead, the Juggernaut was reborn for the 1990s with fresh crisis, brutal cuts and a blizzard of reforms, including a historic new chapter in Crown-Māori relations, a Beehive coup and the gravity-defying advent of an entirely new electoral system. Includes new and exclusive interviews with Jim Bolger, Ruth Richardson, Jenny Shipley, Helen Clark, Doug Graham, Don McKinnon, Bill Birch, Sandra Lee-Vercoe, Tau Henare and

news politics

All Episodes

62:19

Episode 6: The Prime Minister Is Not a Person

Juggernaut 2: The Story of the Fourth National... ·

2025/12/08

New Zealand’s first MMP government gets off to a rocky start, beset by boxer-short scandals and lousy poll numbers. Jim Bolger declares “springtime for New Zealand”, but the economic weather won’t play ball. He leaves for Europe oblivious to the plans being cooked up by a small, secretive group of MPs called “The Te Puke Bypass Committee”.When Bolger returns from overseas, Doug Graham is there to deliver the news – Jenny Shipley has the numbers; the game is up. Many are relieved, many distraught

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62:01

Episode 5: The Seven Generations Fight

Juggernaut 2: The Story of the Fourth National... ·

2025/12/01

The 1990s in New Zealand have dawned with images of harmony projected to the world, but longstanding divisions still acute at home. The Bolger government comes to power promising to uphold the Treaty and provide redress for injustice. Negotiations over the Sealords fishery quota and with two of Aotearoa’s largest iwi, Waikato Tainui and Ngāi Tahu face pushback from all directions: in cabinet and the National Party base, from the public, and within te ao Māori, where the concept of the “fiscal

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67:24

Episode 4: One for a Party, One for a Person

Juggernaut 2: The Story of the Fourth National... ·

2025/11/24

It took an extraordinary cocktail of events to bring proportional representation to New Zealand – everything from political cock-ups to public screams of resentment. This is the story of a country that decides to tear up its electoral plumbing – and what it does next. As the country chooses MMP, it also puts Jim Bolger back in power, but by the very narrowest of margins. Winston Peters and Jim Anderton thrive, small, splinter parties proliferate, and the old guard scrambles to prepare for the new

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53:03

Episode 3: Bugger the Pollsters

Juggernaut 2: The Story of the Fourth National... ·

2025/11/17

After some of the most hectic months in the history of New Zealand politics, Jim Bolger faces a white-knuckle byelection in Tamaki. In the seat vacated by the pugnacious Rob Muldoon, even the National candidate seems to be standing against the government. With the impacts of radical and painful reforms still raw, a general election rapidly approaches. It will go right down to the wire, and serve up an unforgettable pair of election night speeches from Bolger and Mike Moore. On the left, a new

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50:35

Episode 2: The Mother of All Budgets

Juggernaut 2: The Story of the Fourth National... ·

2025/11/10

A mood of protest sweeps New Zealand in 1991, sometimes spilling over into violence, as the reform machine powers on. Benefits are slashed, the Employment Contracts Act fundamentally reshapes the labour market, the health system is restructured, and Jim Bolger U-turns on a “no ifs, no buts, no maybes” promise around superannuation. Here Ruth Richardson tells the story of the Mother of All Budgets – what she was hoping to achieve, and how it got that indelible name. In a whirlwind first year of

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49:13

Episode 1: A Decent Society

Juggernaut 2: The Story of the Fourth National... ·

2025/11/10

After the breakneck reforms of the 80s, Jim Bolger’s promise of a calmer, more inclusive New Zealand hits the spot. Emerging from the shadow of Muldoon and shaking off the nuclear baggage, Bolger leads the National Party to a landslide victory under the “decent society” banner. But even before the celebrations are done, the hangover hits: the state-owned BNZ is on the brink, and the government books are in a parlous state. Ruth Richardson wastes no time as finance minister in making the most of

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1:10

Juggernaut 2: Coming Soon

Juggernaut 2: The Story of the Fourth National... ·

2025/10/19

The award-winning podcast returns to tell the story of a Juggernaut reborn for the 90s in National blue.Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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51:18

A special edition of The Fold: The future of The Spinoff

Juggernaut 2: The Story of the Fourth National... ·

2024/11/27

Normally on The Fold, we discuss events in the wider media, but today, the subject is us and the future of The Spinoff. Published on site today is an open letter from Duncan, The Spinoff’s editor Madeleine Chapman, and its CEO Amber Easby. It toplines where The Spinoff is right now as a platform – this paradoxical place where our audience is the strongest it has ever been, outside of events like Covid or elections – but that the stagnant ad market, and a hard drop in public funding for our work, has

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69:59

Bonus episode: Ross Vintiner - The Lange I Knew

Juggernaut 2: The Story of the Fourth National... ·

2024/07/24

Ross Vintiner was right by David Lange's side in opposition and in government as his head of press. If you enjoyed the Juggernaut series on the fourth Labour government, you'll enjoy his insights into the singular figure of Lange and the whirl of the ninth floor across those wild years.Juggernaut was made with the support of NZ On Air.

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51:10

6. Breakup

Juggernaut 2: The Story of the Fourth National... ·

2024/07/17

The Lange-Douglas relationship frays further as the prime minister unilaterally pulls the pin on a flat tax package signed off by cabinet. A furious Douglas flies back from Europe, but the split only deepens, as Lange declares it’s time for radical reforms to pause and calls for a “cup of tea” and the two Beehive offices go to war, with Douglas loyalists putting the blame on Lange’s lover, Margaret Pope. Something has to give, and soon it does.New and exclusive interviews with Roger Douglas,

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51:00

5. Nine Day Wonder

Juggernaut 2: The Story of the Fourth National... ·

2024/07/10

At the urging of the gay community, Fran Wilde takes the homosexual law reform bill to parliament in 1985. The campaign encounters fierce resistance from MPs on both the National and Labour sides of the house. Is it fair for Labour today to claim it as a party triumph? At the same time, strides are being taken in introducing the Treaty of Waitangi into political and legal structures, as part of a blizzard of reforms. In one crucial example, change will come after David Lange misreads his notes.New

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43:18

4. Quantum Leap

Juggernaut 2: The Story of the Fourth National... ·

2024/07/03

Roger Douglas’s radical overhaul of the NZ economy kicks through the gears. A new investor class gets high on champagne and shares. What could go wrong? A bonfire of subsidies leaves farmers on their knees. Corporatisation sends thousands of state workers to the dole queue. Labour is returned to power in 1987 despite a campaign with starkly contrasting messages. For Lange, victory is bittersweet. When the global crash smashes New Zealand, Douglas seizes the opportunity to go harder, and go

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51:31

3. Uranium on Your Breath

Juggernaut 2: The Story of the Fourth National... ·

2024/06/26

In a tense and divided cold war world, David Lange emerges as an anti-nuclear champion, despite being out of contact, deep in the Pacific when the crisis strikes. The Americans are furious: didn’t the NZ PM pledge to smooth the waters in Labour to allow a US ship visit? They become even angrier when he takes the stage at the Oxford Union, to global acclaim. When an act of state terrorism sees a Greenpeace ship sunk and a photographer killed in Auckland harbour, the public mood on nukes only

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42:46

2. The Nation Is at Risk

Juggernaut 2: The Story of the Fourth National... ·

2024/06/19

Victory for Lange in 1984 comes with a cluster of crises – economic and constitutional. In a pair of spellbinding TV interviews, the bellicose outgoing PM Rob Muldoon refuses to devalue and Lange responds, enraged. The deputy PM, Jim McLay, summons senior ministers, who plot a high-wire response. Out of the maelstrom, Roger Douglas launches a revolution, to transform New Zealand’s creaking economy from the developed world’s most regulated to its most market embracing. Including new and exclusive

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55:14

1. I Love You, Mr Lange

Juggernaut 2: The Story of the Fourth National... ·

2024/06/12

Fuelled by brandy and fury, Sir Rob Muldoon calls a snap election, sparking a 1984 campaign of contrasts – the menacing, protectionist National PM against the fresh, upbeat Labour leader, David Lange. The pretext for the election is the decision by Marilyn Waring, a young, gay MP, to back an anti-nuclear bill and quit the National caucus, prompting an earful from Muldoon. Lange, meanwhile, is joined at the hip by a hungry would-be finance minister, Roger Douglas. They are about to confront a

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1:24

Juggernaut – out now

Juggernaut 2: The Story of the Fourth National... ·

2024/06/10

The Spinoff presents Juggernaut, hosted by Toby Manhire.When a brandy-fuelled Rob Muldoon called a snap election in 1984, the dam burst on a period of unparalleled change in New Zealand. Under David Lange and Roger Douglas, the country witnessed an economy upended, a bold new stance on the world stage, sweeping social and cultural transformations, and bitter personal recriminations. The reverberations of that revolution continue to be felt, 40 years on. Juggernaut was made with the support of NZ

en

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