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PODCAST

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music

Andrew Gill and Leah Payne

Rock That Doesn’t Roll looks at how Christian music shaped the world we"re living in now by telling individual stories from the peak era of the contemporary Christian music industry. In the 80s, 90s and early 2000s CCM grew into a billion dollar business that affected millions of evangelical young people. Through interviews with artists, industry players and average fans Dr. Leah Payne and Andrew Gill trace the long-lasting personal, cultural and political impact of sometimes cringe-worthy

music music history

All Episodes

55:19

1985: The Critical Year of CCM (ft. Tim Dillinger)

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2025/09/24

In 1985 the Contemporary Christian Music industry reached a cultural height it would never regain. That's the basic case that Tim Dillinger has been making lately in his Substack, God's Music Is My Life. With artists like Amy Grant, Leslie Phillips, Sheila Walsh, Tramaine Hawkins and Rez Band pushing the boundaries of CCM from the inside, and mainstream acts like Maria Muldour and Mr. Mister pushing into CCM from the outside, 1985 was a year like no other, according to Tim. Would you

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01:03:49

K-LOVE's Tradecraft (ft. Katie Thornton)

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2025/09/17

Katie Thornton loves radio. Her series The Divided Dial has delved into conservative talk radio and shortwave. It won a 2023 Peabody Award. And her piece for Rolling Stone, "Jesus Take The Dial" goes in depth on CCM radio giant K-LOVE's operations. We talk with Thornton about how K-LOVE's parent company has used its non-profit status to build a broadcasting behemoth and the downstream effects that has on American culture. We also discuss the Christian music she actually enjoys, her

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43:24

Ozzy Osbourne, Christian Rocker (ft. Jason P Woodbury)

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2025/09/10

Ozzy Osbourne died in July. He was memorialized as the "Prince of Darkness" and was a key figure during the Satanic Panic of the 1980s. But our guest Jason P Woodbury points out that Osbourne's genius was in marrying heaven and hell- and if you listen closely, he's not as different from Christian rock as you might assume. Jason P Woodbury is an editor of Aquarium Drunkard and hosts their podcast, Transmissions. He also makes music as JPW.---Register for Theology Beer Camp with our promo

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36:03

Larry Norman and Bob Dylan's Born Again Era Part 2...

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2025/09/03

Larry Norman thought another world was possible. Christians would make daring, artistic rock music. Mainstream musicians would make earnestly explore their spirituality in popular songs. He started a record label and an artist management company to make this a reality. And though he could see glimpses of this world, it was fully realized. Gregory Alan Thornbury is our guest this week- in an interview recorded in 2022. He's Norman's biographer and an "erstwhile theologian" as he puts it. His

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52:06

Larry Norman, the Guru of Christian Rock Part 1 (ft....

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2025/08/27

Larry Norman is widely recognized as the first Christian rock star. Recording with mainstream studio musicians The Wrecking Crew and later sharing a label with The Velvet Underground, Norman began his career singing explicitly about the values of evangelical Christianity on mainstream releases that didn't exactly light up the charts. But when Christian music publishers licensed his albums to sell in bookstores, sales went through the roof and the Christian Contemporary Music market was

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46:36

Yallidarity Explained (ft. Nathan Evans Fox)

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2025/08/20

Nathan Evans Fox is a country music artist, but he has a deep background with Christian music. In his viral hit single "Hillbilly Hymn" he brings the biblical concept of jubilee into the rural gas station. Find more of Nathan's music here and look for his podcast "Yallidarity Social Club" soon. ---Register for Theology Beer Camp with our promo code RTDR for $75 off.Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you,

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59:21

The Prayer of Caedmon (ft. Derek Webb)

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2025/08/13

Derek Webb was part of a remarkable success story with Caedmon's Call in the late '90s. But the more success he witnessed, the less he could keep quiet. Now in his solo career he stands confidently alongside the marginalized, even attending the Dove Awards in a dress. Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app)Or make

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53:30

Fire Acquired: Shiny Happy People (ft. Krispin Mayfield)

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2025/08/06

In season two of Shiny Happy People, the Amazon Prime Original docu-series turns its focus to Teen Mania Ministries, the organization that made Acquire The Fire stadium events. These events are described in the series as "youth group Coachella." But Christian music was just the tip of the iceberg with Teen Mania. To unpack the series, Andrew is joined by Krispin Mayfield, a fellow podcaster and licensed therapist who specializes in helping people with religious trauma. Learn more about

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01:19:42

Cornerstone, Communes and Chicago Blues (ft. Glenn...

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2025/07/30

Glenn Kaiser has had a huge influence on Christian music as a musician, a festival co-founder and an outspoken thought leader. He was our top guest choice for our live taping in January of 2025 in Chicago.While Glenn Kaiser is a singular figure in the world of Christian music, we are aware that Jesus People USA is a triggering topic for some listeners. For a more thorough examination of Jesus People USA check out the book Grey Sabbath or for the perspective of abuse survivors from JPUSA,

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52:17

The Deconstructed Memelord Theologian (ft. Mason...

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2025/07/23

Mason Mennenga is really good at social media. You've probably seen his posts about evangelical culture, Christian music or VeggieTales. But he does a lot more than just that. He hosts two podcasts: A People's Theology and The BlackSheep Podcast. He has a YouTube channel. He writes academic papers on music. And he works in the admissions office of a seminary. His social media bio was once "Skillet's Wario" and last year he interviewed the lead singer of Skillet. We were excited to talk with

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01:27

Gone Fishin'

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2025/07/16

No new episode this week. Be back next Wednesday. Check our Patreon for some bonus content if you're interested. Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app)Or make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdrIf you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show.You can connect with us on Instagram or by

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52:38

Giving Up Your Band For God (ft. Josh Caterer of...

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2025/07/09

In 1998 it seemed like Josh Caterer had it made. His band, Smoking Popes, had three critically acclaimed albums out. They were signed to Capitol Records. He had married his high school sweetheart. But Josh had also just become a Christian and couldn't reconcile his rock band life with his new evangelical life. So he quit the band. On today's episode hosts Andrew Gill and Dr. Leah Payne talk with Josh Caterer about that decision, how the band got back together, their new album, Lovely Stuff,

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48:14

Christian Music on the Hot 100

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2025/07/02

In mid-June NPR published a story with the headline "Christian music is experiencing a pop breakthrough." As podcasters covering the Christian music industry, we usually think it reached it's zenith of popularity in the early 2000s, so this article caught our attention. To dig deeper into the topic, we invited the article's author, Emma Madden, on the podcast. Our chat was wide ranging and gets into the influence of worship music on new Christian pop music, differences in religious culture

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01:03:34

Russ Taff and Steve Taylor

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2025/06/25

This week on the show it's legends only: Russ Taff and Steve Taylor. They collaborated on Russ' new album, "Cover Story," but both have long and distinctive careers in the Christian music industry. Russ Taff became lead singer of The Imperials in 1976, started his solo career in 1983, earning two Grammys and many Dove awards. He was one of the industry's biggest solo male stars, but his most beloved songs are Pentecostal worship songs that connect all the way back to his childhood. Over the

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01:16:05

Accountability for Michael Tait (DC Talk, Newsboys)...

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2025/06/18

Michael Tait, most recently lead singer of The Newsboys and also well known as one third of DC Talk, confessed to accusations of sexual assault and drug abuse on June 10, 2025. This came after deeply reported investigations into his behavior were published first by The Roys Report and then by The Guardian. The day before this news broke, whistleblowers accused the worship leader best known for right wing political agitation, Sean Feucht, of financial misappropriation and spiritually

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01:20

Season Three Update

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2025/03/26

A short update on progress towards season three of Rock That Doesn't Roll. Leah's limited-run podcast, Spirit and Power.

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45:08

Lo! A Christmas Special!

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2024/12/20

Buy tickets for our live show in Chicago on January 5!It's the second annual Rock That Doesn't Roll CCM Christmas Song Awards!Listen to find out what awards Amy Grant, Sarah Masen, Carman, Stryper and David Meece won this year.Do you have a song that deserves an award? Leave us a message at (629) 777-6336.If you want more seasons of Rock That Doesn’t Roll, you can support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdrYou can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.comSign up

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30:31

The Art House (ft. Charlie Peacock and Andi Ashworth)

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2024/11/01

Charlie Peacock is a renowned figure in the music industry for his solo albums, production work, songwriting and his record label RE:Think, which launched Switchfoot and Sarah Mason. Outside of the music industry spotlight he and his wife Andi Ashworth were creating a very unique space in Nashville called The Art House. Their experiences with The Art House inspired their recent book, "Why Everything That Doesn't Matter, Matters So Much: The Way of Love in a World of Hurt." Leah actually

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49:30

Youth Group Demon Hunting (ft. Jordan Morris)

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2024/10/16

Jordan Morris is a long time podcaster, comedy writer and creator and co-writer of the two-time Eisner-nominated graphic novel Bubble (based on the hit podcast). His new graphic novel, co-written with artist Bowen McCurdy is Youth Group. It draws on Jordan's real life experiences in a Orange County California youth groups in the 1990s, but adds literal demon hunting to the list of church-approved activities. In the Patreon-only version of this episode, he also shares a story about Christian

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32:51

Introducing: Second Sunday

Rock That Doesn"t Roll: The Story of Christian Music ·

2024/10/02

Second Sunday is one of our sibling podcasts with PRX's Big Questions Project. Second Sunday is about Black Queer folks finding, keeping and sometimes losing faith.Mark Miller is a graduate of Juilliard and Yale University with an expertise in choral conducting, sacred music, and voice. His hymns and anthems are sung by communities of faith throughout the world, and his album, Imagine the People of God, is available on iTunes. He believes that music, social justice, and the beloved

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43 results

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