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PODCAST

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp

What does it really mean to live a good life—in our politics, our faith, our work, and our relationships? On No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp, we explore the ideas, practices, and public debates that shape human flourishing today. Each week you’ll hear thought-provoking conversations with bestselling authors, philosophers, neuroscientists, psychologists, theologians, artists, and political leaders—people wrestling with the biggest questions of meaning and purpose in our time. Together we

religion & spirituality philosophy

All Episodes

73:05

233: Unabridged Interview: Haleh Liza Gafori

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp ·

2025/10/31

This is our unabridged interview with Haleh Liza Gafori.Haleh Liza Gafori joins us for part two of a three-part series asking the question posed by poet Christian Wiman: What is poetry’s role when the world is burning? It’s not a metaphorical question. We’re living through wars, climate collapse, collective burnout, and political fragmentation. What possibly might human flourishing mean in such a context? And what might poetry have to do with it? Here, Haleh Liza Gafori—poet, musician, and

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47:59

The Subtext: Liver King: Masculinity in Crisis

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp ·

2025/10/29

When the “Liver King” built an empire on raw meat, steroids, and slogans about being “a real man,” what if he wasn’t selling a message based on muscles but mortality? In this episode, Savannah and Lee dig into how the fear of death shapes our obsession with control, strength, and self-sufficiency. Drawing from Untold: The Liver King, Scott Galloway’s research on the masculinity crisis, and Richard Beck’s The Slavery of Death, they trace a cultural thread that might tell us something about how we

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51:14

233: Haleh Liza Gafori: The Poetry of Rumi, Theology,...

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp ·

2025/10/27

Haleh Liza Gafori joins us for part two of a three-part series asking the question posed by poet Christian Wiman: What is poetry’s role when the world is burning? It’s not a metaphorical question. We’re living through wars, climate collapse, collective burnout, and political fragmentation. What possibly might human flourishing mean in such a context? And what might poetry have to do with it? Here, Haleh Liza Gafori—poet, musician, and translator—guides us into the world of the Sufi poet Rumi

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60:33

232: Unabridged Interview: Joy Harjo

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp ·

2025/10/24

Joy Harjo joins us for part one of a three-part series asking the question posed by poet Christian Wiman: What is poetry’s role when the world is burning? It’s not a metaphorical question. We’re living through wars, climate collapse, collective burnout, and political fragmentation. What possibly might human flourishing mean in such a context? And what might poetry have to do with it? Here, three‑term U.S. Poet Laureate Joy Harjo (Muskogee Creek Nation) shares how her poetry emerges from pain,

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42:49

The Subtext: God and Gilmore Girls

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp ·

2025/10/22

In this episode, Savannah and Lee celebrate the 25th anniversary of Gilmore Girls and use Melissa McCarthy’s viral story about Yanic Truesdale’s “fake” French accent as a springboard to talk about authenticity, faith, and what we’ve been trained to hear as “real.” From Luke’s Diner to the Sermon on the Mount, this episode asks: how do we tell the difference between the real thing and a good imitation…and would we even recognize Jesus’s accent if we heard it today?Follow The

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51:11

232: Joy Harjo: Poetry and the Pursuit of Justice,...

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp ·

2025/10/20

Joy Harjo joins us for part one of a three-part series asking the question posed by poet Christian Wiman: What is poetry’s role when the world is burning? It’s not a metaphorical question. We’re living through wars, climate collapse, collective burnout, and political fragmentation. What possibly might human flourishing mean in such a context? And what might poetry have to do with it? Here, three‑term U.S. Poet Laureate Joy Harjo (Muskogee Creek Nation) shares how her poetry emerges from pain,

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64:54

231: Unabridged Interview: Garrett Graff

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp ·

2025/10/17

This is our unabridged interview with Garrett Graff. What can it possibly mean to flourish in our tech saturated world? In the early 2000s, the internet felt like a civic miracle in the making, with profound possibilities for human flourishing and civic progress. Facebook gave voice to protestors in Egypt’s Tahrir Square. Twitter helped bring down dictators. The web seemed poised to enhance democracy, amplify transparency, and connect us more deeply. But then the tide turned. This episode

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56:36

The Subtext: The Life of a Showgirl (Lee’s Version)

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp ·

2025/10/15

When a Christian influencer warns moms that Taylor Swift will lead their daughters astray, the conversation has moved beyond pop music and into culture. In this episode, Savannah and Lee trace how the church has wrestled with cultural artifacts, including Niebuhr’s Christ and Culture, and what frameworks can help us understand modern reactions to celebrities like Swift. Then, they turn to Life of a Showgirl to explore how Taylor’s own storytelling exposes what we actually believe about celebrity,

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51:29

231: Garrett Graff: Social Media, Politics, and the...

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp ·

2025/10/13

What can it possibly mean to flourish in our tech saturated world?In the early 2000s, the internet felt like a civic miracle in the making, with profound possibilities for human flourishing and civic progress. Facebook gave voice to protestors in Egypt’s Tahrir Square. Twitter helped bring down dictators. The web seemed poised to enhance democracy, amplify transparency, and connect us more deeply. But then the tide turned. This episode features Garrett Graff, historian, journalist, and host of

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72:51

230: Unabridged Interview: Anna Sale

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp ·

2025/10/10

This is our unabridged interview with Anna Sale.When Anna Sale launched Death, Sex & Money in 2014, she was 30 years old, newly divorced, living alone in a studio apartment in New York City, and trying to figure out what her life would become. She had covered politics as a reporter, but her personal world was unraveling. So she started asking strangers to talk about hard things, the questions she herself was desperate to explore: How do people rebuild after loss? What do we do with grief,

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34:10

From Revisionist History: The Alabama Murders [ft....

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp ·

2025/10/09

Here’s a preview of a new podcast series that Lee recently appeared in, The Alabama Murders from Revisionist History. Florence, Alabama. 1988. A preacher has an affair. A woman is murdered. One death cascades into more, stretching across decades and leaving no one untouched — victims, bystanders, perpetrators, and those just trying to help. On The Alabama Murders, Malcolm Gladwell asks: why, in our efforts to alleviate suffering, do we so often make it worse? Find Revisionist History: The Alabama

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42:03

The Subtext: When Artists Fund the Military

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp ·

2025/10/08

When Spotify CEO Daniel Ek invests in a military AI startup, it raises a deeper question: how do we live with integrity in systems that profit from harm? In this episode, we explore the uncomfortable relationship between the best and brightest, money, and violence—from Deerhoof’s protest to Oppenheimer’s legacy, from Walter Wink’s “powers that be” to Dorothy Day’s radical refusal to cooperate. Is resistance possible in a world where no dollar is clean? And what does the Kingdom of God have to do

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51:34

230: Anna Sale: Cultivating Courage to Talk About...

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp ·

2025/10/06

When Anna Sale launched Death, Sex & Money in 2014, she was 30 years old, newly divorced, living alone in a studio apartment in New York City, and trying to figure out what her life would become. She had covered politics as a reporter, but her personal world was unraveling. So she started asking strangers to talk about hard things, the questions she herself was desperate to explore: How do people rebuild after loss? What do we do with grief, shame, money, or fractured relationships? What does it

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65:25

229: Unabridged Interview: Terence Lester

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp ·

2025/10/03

This is our unabridged interview with Terence Lester. It was three days before Christmas when Terence Lester’s family dropped him beneath a bridge in Atlanta. With no change of clothes and a biting winter cold, he began a month-long experiment in solidarity with the unhoused. Strangers offered blankets, socks, even stories around a firepit. It was humbling, painful, and life-altering. And it was from this crucible that Love Beyond Walls was born—a nonprofit dedicated to restoring dignity and

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43:52

The Subtext: Friendship Recession

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp ·

2025/10/01

In this episode, Lee and Savannah explore why friendships are harder to form and sustain in today’s culture, despite living in the most “connected” era in history. They examine how technology and convenience have reshaped friendship from a priority into a luxury. They ask whether these shifts meet our deep human need for connection or quietly erode it. Ultimately, the conversation wrestles with how we might resist the forces of isolation and reclaim friendship as essential to a flourishing life.

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52:01

229: Terence Lester: Human Flourishing, Self...

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp ·

2025/09/29

It was three days before Christmas when Terence Lester’s family dropped him beneath a bridge in Atlanta. With no change of clothes and a biting winter cold, he began a month-long experiment in solidarity with the unhoused. Strangers offered blankets, socks, even stories around a firepit. It was humbling, painful, and life-altering. And it was from this crucible that Love Beyond Walls was born—a nonprofit dedicated to restoring dignity and community for those pushed to the margins: an exploration

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67:25

228: Unabridged Interview: Jen Hatmaker

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp ·

2025/09/26

This is our unabridged interview with Jen Hatmaker. Jen Hatmaker's world unraveled at 2.00 a.m. one night when she awoke to hear her husband of 26 years lying beside her in bed, voice-texting his girlfriend. That's the brutal story with which Jen begins her new memoir, Awake: A Memoir of Reinvention and Recovery. It was the start of a long, painful journey—through grief, honesty with her self, and ultimately, toward authentic human flourishing. Jen shares what it meant to lose not only her

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50:16

The Subtext: America’s Sweethearts: Pom Poms and Pay...

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp ·

2025/09/24

We are pleased to announce that this fall we are launching a new show called "The Subtext." Today, NSE+ members get exclusive access to the unreleased pilot of the show. In this episode, Savannah Locke and Lee C. Camp dive into a critical discussion of the Netflix show "America's Sweethearts" and the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders' fight for fair wages. This sparks a broader conversation about the wealth gap, the commodification of labor—including human bodies—in professional sports, and the

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51:26

228: Jen Hatmaker: When Everything Breaks: Grief,...

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp ·

2025/09/22

Jen Hatmaker's world unraveled at 2.00 a.m. one night when she awoke to hear her husband of 26 years lying beside her in bed, voice-texting his girlfriend. That's the brutal story with which Jen begins her new memoir, Awake: A Memoir of Reinvention and Recovery. It was the start of a long, painful journey—through grief, honesty with her self, and ultimately, toward authentic human flourishing. Jen shares what it meant to lose not only her marriage, but also the public persona she had spent

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77:14

227: Unabridged Interview: Max Lucado

No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp ·

2025/09/19

This is our unabridged interview with Max Lucado.Called “America’s Pastor," Max Lucado has sold more than 150 million products and authored over 40 nonfiction books. In this vulnerable career retrospective interview, Lee explores what led Max Lucado to become almost synonymous with grace, acceptance and forgiveness--namely some of his own wounds from childhood experiences in a frugal, sometimes emotionally volatile West Texas home. He recounts stories of his mother--whom he deeply

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