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PODCAST

Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast

Persephonica and Global Optimism

Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast is for anyone who is not ready to give up on making the world a better place. For unrivalled conversations with decision makers, visionary thinkers and a community of like-minded climate optimists, join former UN climate chief Christiana Figueres, political strategist Tom Rivett-Carnac and sustainable business consultant Paul Dickinson. Each week they make sense of all the top climate news stories, go behind the scenes at crucial talks and ensure you stay

science

All Episodes

32:24

Power, Money and Influence: The Hidden Forces Shaping...

Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast ·

2026/02/05

Who really holds power in the climate transition? And how do money, politics, and influence shape the pace of change?In this episode, Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivett-Carnac and Paul Dickinson use some of your most probing questions on the political economy of climate action to unpack what happens behind closed doors and to challenge some of the assumptions that often dominate public debate.What does lobbying actually look like - and is it always a bad thing? What are we talking about when we refer

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34:57

The China Pivot: What will Beijing’s climate...

Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast ·

2026/01/29

World leaders are flocking to Beijing. In the first weeks of 2026, Canada’s Mark Carney, the UK’s Sir Keir Starmer and South Korea’s Lee Jae-myung have all made high-profile visits - an unmistakable signal of global power recalibrating.China’s dominance in clean energy manufacturing is already well established: from solar panels and batteries to wind turbines. The question now is whether this transition remains merely made in China, or whether it is increasingly being shaped and led from

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41:40

Beyond COP: Can Brazil Chart a Path Off Fossil Fuels?

Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast ·

2026/01/22

How dependent are we - economically, politically and socially - on fossil fuels? And how do we begin to loosen that grip?As the world reels from geopolitical shocks, multilateral institutions under strain, and the United States’ withdrawal from key climate bodies, Ana Toni - CEO of COP30 - joins the show to discuss what comes next. Both for Brazil’s presidency in this crucial year, and for the wider system of climate cooperation at a moment when the old rules feel increasingly fragile.Christiana

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37:55

What does Trump’s UNFCCC exit mean for climate...

Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast ·

2026/01/15

What happens when the world’s most powerful country walks away from the system it helped to build?This week, we examine the United States’ decision to withdraw not only from the Paris Agreement, but from the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change itself - alongside dozens of other international bodies. Headlines declared the end of multilateral climate cooperation. But is that really what this moment represents?Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivett-Carnac and Paul Dickinson unpack what has actually

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42:44

Venezuela, Fossil Fuels, and the Year Ahead

Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast ·

2026/01/08

The year has barely begun, and already the fault lines of global power are on full display.Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivett-Carnac and Paul Dickinson take stock of a moment that feels both shocking and revealing. The US abduction of Venezuela’s president raises urgent questions about sovereignty, international law, and the enduring grip of fossil fuels on geopolitics - even as the energy transition accelerates. But what’s really driving events in Venezuela? And how can we tease apart the political

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40:58

Beginning the Year With Ancestral Wisdom

Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast ·

2026/01/01

As billions around the world mark the beginning of a new year, many are pausing to ask the same questions: what do we carry forward, and what do we leave behind, as we cross from the old into the new? And as headlines fill with predictions about the rise of artificial intelligence, could a different kind of AI - ‘ancestral intelligence’ - offer insights equal to the depth of the climate and biodiversity crises we now face?This year’s COP saw Indigenous and First Nations Peoples better represented

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45:23

Why Beauty Matters in the Climate Crisis

Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast ·

2025/12/24

At a moment when the world feels noisier, faster, and more demanding than ever, what role can beauty play in helping us slow down, reconnect, and remember what matters?As the year draws to a close, Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivett-Carnac and Paul Dickinson step back from targets, timelines and political headwinds to explore how craft, design and the quiet appreciation for our objects and spaces can shape both the worlds we live in, and the futures we are trying to build.Tom is joined in Bath by

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43:50

Follow The Money: Who’s driving climate disinformation?

Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast ·

2025/12/18

At the very moment we need clarity and trust, information integrity is being polluted. Disinformation is profitable and the impact on truth is dangerous. Nowhere is this more obvious than in the discourse around climate.This week, Outrage + Optimism steps into the murky, fast-moving world of climate disinformation. Not simply misunderstanding and confusion, but the deliberate shaping of narratives to delay action, fracture trust, and profit from doubt.Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivett-Carnac and Paul

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49:05

Paris, 10 Years On - Has it Changed the World?

Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast ·

2025/12/11

Ten years ago, a gavel dropped in a conference hall north of Paris. It was the moment the world agreed on a strategic plan for one of the most consequential transformations in human history. But, a decade later, what has the Paris Agreement truly delivered?Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivett-Carnac and Paul Dickinson pull back the curtain on the moment that changed global climate politics. The emotional reality of that night, the fragile trust built after the failure of Copenhagen, and the architecture

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47:59

Jacinda Ardern and… Is It Time to Talk About...

Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast ·

2025/12/04

This week, hosts Tom Rivett Carnac and Paul Dickinson delve into the rapidly emerging - and faintly surreal - world of solar geoengineering.Politico journalist Karl Mathiesen joins us to unpack his investigation into Stardust, a VC-backed startup claiming it’s ready to spray particles into the stratosphere. Karl explains why this technology is suddenly attracting serious money, why scientists still have major questions about safety and side effects, and how in some places, the global regulatory

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36:35

Kim Stanley Robinson on Pre Traumatic Imagination and...

Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast ·

2025/11/27

This week on Outrage + Optimism, we’re taking a breath.After two intense weeks of daily updates from COP30 in Belém, we’re returning to weekly programming with something different - a slower, deeper, more reflective conversation that felt too valuable to cut.While in the Blue Zone, we sat down with Kim Stanley Robinson, the acclaimed author of The Ministry for the Future, 2312, The Mars trilogy, and the Science in the Capital series. His writing has been read by negotiators, ministers, campaigners,

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37:49

Inside COP: The Final Hours of COP30 - and the road...

Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast ·

2025/11/23

This is our final episode of Inside COP. For two weeks we’ve tried to bring you as close as possible to the heart of COP30 - the pace, the pressure, the progress, and the perspectives of those working inside and around the process.The closing plenary on Saturday began amid unexpected tension. Already running a day behind schedule, the Presidency moved to adopt the final text, but proceedings were paused following questions over whether all interventions had been properly registered. What followed

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38:16

Inside COP: Friday Night in Belém - uncertainty in...

Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast ·

2025/11/22

We recorded this episode across Friday afternoon and deep into the evening inside the Blue Zone at COP30. At the time of publishing, there is still no final deal. The negotiations are ongoing, positions are shifting, and the outcome remains uncertain. We know that by the time you listen, some of what we heard today may already have changed, but we decided there was value in sharing the day with you.This episode is meant as a time capsule.We wanted to bring you inside the atmosphere of a COP Friday:

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15:40

Inside COP: Friday Morning in Belém - what’s changed...

Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast ·

2025/11/21

It’s Friday morning in Belém and COP30 is moving fast. After yesterday’s fire and the overnight closure of the venue, the Brazilian Presidency worked through the night and released a new draft text early this morning. It has immediately triggered significant pushback.In this emergency episode the team talks through what changed overnight, and why so many countries are unhappy. Christiana Figueres highlights how the new text removes the roadmaps for transitioning away from fossil fuels and for

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12:45

Inside COP: Fire at COP30 - and the work still to be...

Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast ·

2025/11/21

Today was not meant to be this episode.At around 2pm local time, a fire broke out near the country pavilions, triggering the full evacuation of the Blue Zone.As COP30 entered its final stretch, we’d planned to bring you an update on the negotiations, and to share some of the many extraordinary stories of progress and perseverance that surface here every single day.As of Thursday evening, the fire has been contained, and we understand there were no serious injuries. But there is shock, and there will

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38:09

Inside COP: Storms in Belém - Lula’s arrival, the...

Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast ·

2025/11/20

We’re approaching crunch time in Belém, and a long-running COP30 saga may finally have found its landing spot. After days of rumour, diplomacy and thunderous rainforest downpours, the question of who will host COP31 looks close to being resolved - and it all plays out over the course of our day’s recording.Paul Dickinson and Fiona McRaith trace the twists of the Australia-Turkey negotiations in real time, with insight from former UN diplomat Dean Bialek. Plus, we hear from political journalist Thais

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44:38

Inside COP: China, India… and the Text on the Table

Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast ·

2025/11/19

It’s the middle of week two at COP30, and the negotiations are entering their crunch phase. A draft cover text has finally landed, ministers are on the ground, and the presidency is pushing hard to close before Lula heads to the G20 in Johannesburg.Paul Dickinson and Fiona McRaith look at the issues still holding up progress - from finance and adaptation to trade, the global stocktake, and the long-running debate over fossil fuel language. Plus, Germany’s former climate envoy Jennifer Morgan joins

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40:50

Inside COP: Coal’s Out, Pressure’s On - a pivotal...

Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast ·

2025/11/18

It’s getting hot in the COP.Executive Secretary Simon Stiell turned up the pressure in Belém on Monday, sharpening his message as ministers arrived for what is often the most charged phase of the summit. He called for no more tactical delays, and no more dancing around the hardest issues.And Pope Leo XIV weighed in with an appeal to moral responsibility and global solidarity.Fiona McRaith and Paul Dickenson break down what these dual interventions signal for the state of play at COP30, as key

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44:46

Inside COP: The fight for the Amazon

Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast ·

2025/11/17

As ministers arrive in Belém for the crucial second week of COP30, forests move from the backdrop of the summit to the main stage. Protests began at dawn on Friday and have continued through the weekend - among them, several activists carried a giant Brazilian flag, emblazoned with the words “Amazȏnia Protegida” (“Protected Amazon”).From the streets outside to the plenary halls in the Blue Zone, trees, land and Indigenous stewardship are shaping this summit’s conversation. In this episode, Paul

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56:58

Inside COP: Al Gore on Fossil Fuel Lobbying and...

Outrage + Optimism: The Climate Podcast ·

2025/11/15

It’s the mid-point of COP30 and all four of our hosts have gathered in Belém to take stock.In the Blue Zone, the mood is its usual blend of high-stakes and surreal. The Presidency is calling its consultations a “collective therapy session,” China would prefer “massage and yoga,” and delegates are deep in the weeds of the Carbon Border Adjustment Mechanism.To sift the signal from the noise, Christiana Figueres, Tom Rivett-Carnac, Paul Dickinson and Fiona McRaith take on the questions listeners keep

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