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PODCAST

The Vertical Space

Jim Barry, Peter Shannon & Luka Tomljenovic

The Vertical Space is a podcast at the intersection of technology and flight, featuring deep dives with innovators, early adopters, and industry leaders.We talk about the radical impact that technology is creating as it disrupts flight, enabling new ways to access the vertical space to improve our lives - from small drones to large aircraft. Our guests are operators and innovators across the value chain: airframers, technologists, data and service providers, as well as end users.

leisure aviation

All Episodes

53:00

#103 Ed Bastian, Delta Air Lines: Raising the ceiling...

The Vertical Space ·

2025/10/30

In this episode, Delta Air Lines CEO Ed Bastian breaks down what truly differentiates a great airline: people and culture. Ed shares why “take care of your people first” isn’t a slogan (it’s Delta’s operating system!) and how that shows up in reliability, premium customer experience, and everyday leadership. We get a candid look at running a 100,000-person, 5,000-flights-a-day operation; the metrics he checks first (on-time arrivals and cash); and why accessibility and listening are his non-n...

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71:09

#102 Adam Woodworth, Wing: What aviation looks like...

The Vertical Space ·

2025/10/21

Adam Woodworth, CEO of Wing (Alphabet’s drone delivery company), joins us to talk about making delivery ubiquitous and why drones should be an equal player alongside other delivery methods. Adam argues we’ve already passed the “risk peak” for UAS integration: the industry now has the operational data to validate safety targets, and the safest path is to fly more because drone trips displace riskier car trips. He traces Wing’s journey from Google X to Part 135 air carrier, the shift from “dron...

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74:18

#101 Ryan Gury, PDW: Drones, Innovation, and Lady Gaga

The Vertical Space ·

2025/10/09

Welcome to episode 101 of The Vertical Space. In this conversation, we sit down with Ryan Gury, Co-founder and CEO of Performance Drone Works (PDW). Ryan argues that “commercial is eating aerospace,” and shows why the center of gravity has shifted from exquisite programs to fast iteration, modular hardware, and drones treated as munitions. We dig into lessons from Ukraine, why precision from a foxhole beats posture from a ridge line and what “velocity + iteration” really means for design, man...

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90:59

#100 Chris Hewlett, Project ULTRA: Why DoD will lead...

The Vertical Space ·

2025/09/25

In this 100th episode, we sit down with Chris Hewlett, former Navy Commander and Director of Project Ultra, for a candid conversation about the realities of UAS integration. Chris challenges the industry’s rush toward community-based traffic management and questions whether UTM, as commonly envisioned, can ever deliver safe and scalable integration. He argues instead that the Department of Defense, through rigorous test, evaluation, and rapid operational deployment, will set the standard for ...

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77:16

#99 Jia Xu, SkyGrid: Opening the sky for autonomous...

The Vertical Space ·

2025/09/09

In this episode, we welcome back Jia Xu, CEO of SkyGrid, to discuss the future of autonomy and shared airspace. SkyGrid is building a trusted airspace and operational integration platform to enable safe, secure, and efficient autonomous flight. Jia highlights where the main bottlenecks and complexities exist across autonomy, advanced air mobility, and shared airspace, and how the industry can move forward. We cover regulatory frameworks such as Part 108 and Part 146, the role of data services...

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86:24

#98 Ryan Graves, ASA: UAPs as a wake-up call for...

The Vertical Space ·

2025/08/06

Ryan Graves is a former U.S. Navy F/A-18F pilot and the first active-duty pilot to publicly report regular UAP sightings. In this episode, we explore what these encounters reveal about gaps in our airspace sensing and safety infrastructure, and where the opportunities lie for better detection, data analysis, and aerospace innovation. Ryan also shares insights from his work at Americans for Safe Aerospace and AIAA, where he’s helping bring scientific rigor and policy attention to a long-overlo...

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74:27

#97 Julie Garland, Avtrain: Drone business and...

The Vertical Space ·

2025/07/17

In this episode we’re joined by Julie Garland, CEO of Avtrain, for a deep dive into the current state of the drone industry and regulation across Europe. Julie shares her perspective on why societal acceptance is just as critical as regulatory approval. We explore how operators like Manna are working to normalize drone activity and influence regulations, and why simplifying regulatory frameworks, including the SORA process, is essential to enable broader adoption of drone operations. The conv...

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75:12

#96 Chad Sweet, ModalAI: Small, smarter, safer UAS -...

The Vertical Space ·

2025/07/03

In this episode, Chad Sweet, co-founder and CEO of ModalAI, joins us to explore the evolving drone landscape and what’s driving the next wave of innovation. Chad shares his perspective on the rising importance of FPV (first-person view) technology - especially in military and public safety applications - and why user experience, including ease of flight and high-quality video streaming, will be a key competitive edge going forward. We also dive into ModalAI’s strategic partnership with Q...

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70:12

#95 Serhii Kupriienko, Swarmer: Building swarms in...

The Vertical Space ·

2025/06/17

Drone swarms are no longer science fiction - they're becoming one of the most disruptive technologies on the modern battlefield. In this episode, we speak with Serhii Kupriienko, founder and CEO of Swarmer, a Ukrainian startup building autonomous swarming capabilities for drones operating in the harshest conditions: GPS-denied, communications-jammed, and under fire. We dive deep into how drone warfare has evolved in Ukraine, the maturation - and limitations - of FPV drone tech, and what true ...

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66:51

#94 Brandon Suarez, Reliable Robotics: Balancing...

The Vertical Space ·

2025/06/04

In this episode, we welcome back Brandon Suarez from Reliable Robotics, more than three years after his first appearance. Brandon leads the development of technical standards and global aviation policy, and this return visit offers a valuable perspective on how the aviation industry has evolved, and in some ways, diverged from expectations. The conversation centers on the implementation of automation in aviation and its operational and safety benefits, especially for general aviation. Brandon...

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69:34

#93 Joey Rios, NASA and UTM: Solve Something Right Now

The Vertical Space ·

2025/05/20

In this episode we sit down with Dr. Joey Rios, Chief Technologist for the Aviation Systems Division at NASA Ames Research Center, for a discussion on the evolution of Unmanned Aircraft Systems Traffic Management (UTM). Joey takes us through the early days of UTM development, reflecting on the foundational principles, the initial use cases, and how the vision has evolved over time. We dive deep into the challenges of airspace design, the reasoning behind the U.S. federated model, and how it c...

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74:05

#92 Richard Aboulafia: Supply chain bottlenecks and...

The Vertical Space ·

2025/05/06

Welcome back to The Vertical Space for our second conversation with Richard Aboulafia, an insightful voice on all things aerospace and defense. This episode dives deeper than ever into the aerospace and defense supply chain: globalization, vulnerabilities, titanium, rare earth elements, and why Tier 1 integrators may be losing their place in the industry. We explore how shifting geopolitics, material dependencies, and evolving national strategies are redrawing the map of the aeros...

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77:58

#91 George Mattson, Wheels Up: The integrated...

The Vertical Space ·

2025/05/01

In this episode, we sit down with George Mattson, CEO of Wheels Up, for a conversation about leading one of the most recognized brands in private aviation. George shares his perspective on building Wheels Up into an aviation solutions company and what sets their model apart in a competitive industry. With his background on the board of Delta Airlines, he offers a unique lens on integrating commercial and private aviation to create a seamless customer experience. We explore the current landsca...

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71:53

#90 Chris Gentile, Merlin: Inside the race for...

The Vertical Space ·

2025/04/08

In this episode we sit down with Chris Gentile, General Manager for Tactical Autonomy at Merlin, for an in-depth look at the evolving role of autonomy in defense. Chris outlines the value proposition of autonomy as a tool, not a standalone product, and discusses the principles of a modular, hybrid, and hierarchical architecture design in building robust autonomous systems. We explore how recent milestones in trusted autonomy are reshaping military strategy and capability, and how the technolo...

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82:10

#89 Christian Ramsey, uAvionix: Tackling aviation...

The Vertical Space ·

2025/03/25

Welcome back to a conversation with Christian Ramsey, Chief Commercial Officer of uAvionix. Christian last joined us in 2022, and now, almost three years later, we revisit his predictions to see what played out as expected, and what didn’t. We kick things off with Remote ID: why it was selected, why it has failed to meet expectations, and how prioritizing low-cost implementation led to major performance shortcomings. Next, we get a masterclass on ADS-B, starting with its origins, benefits, an...

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72:30

#88 Captain Lee Moak: The time for change is now

The Vertical Space ·

2025/03/12

In this episode, we sit down with Captain Donald Lee Moak, a distinguished aviation leader. With experience spanning military and commercial aviation to boardroom leadership, Lee is known for driving change. He doesn’t just talk about change; he makes it happen. Our discussion centers on three major themes: the urgent need to modernize and privatize the U.S. air traffic control (ATC) system to enhance safety and efficiency, lessons from aviation’s strong safety record, and the recent rise in ...

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94:53

#87 Arnaud Thiercelin, Orqa: Cutting through the...

The Vertical Space ·

2025/02/25

In this episode, we sit down with Arnaud Thiercelin, Chief Product Officer at Orqa, for a bold and eye-opening conversation about the present and future of drones and mobile robotics. Arnaud challenges the status quo, urging listeners to think beyond gimmicks and focus on delivering real value to end users. From FPV drones neutralizing M1 Abrams tanks to the West’s struggle to produce a viable DJI competitor, he doesn’t shy away from controversy. He calls out the industry's missteps and offer...

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78:59

#86 Carey Cannon: 38 years of rotorcraft development...

The Vertical Space ·

2025/02/11

In this episode, retired Senior Chief Engineer Carey Cannon shares his 38-year journey at Bell Helicopter, talking about the realities of developing and deploying vertical lift aircraft. He discusses why many eVTOL manufacturers underestimate the time and cost required, why getting in the air is the easy part, and the enduring principles of helicopter design. Carey reflects on key programs like the V280 and EagleEye, the technology gaps he encountered, and the biggest technical and commercial...

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77:22

#85 Sean Donohue, DFW Airport: A CEO's perspective on...

The Vertical Space ·

2025/01/28

In this episode we dive into an engaging conversation with Sean Donohue, CEO of Dallas Fort Worth International Airport (DFW). The discussion covers a broad range of topics such as the significant role of travel and tourism in the global economy, the strategies of introducing new technologies in aviation, and the operational priorities of running one of the world's largest airports. Sean provides insights into the complexities of balancing demand and supply in air traffic, his perspective on ...

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75:46

#84 Jenn Player, Skydio: Autonomous drone operations

The Vertical Space ·

2025/01/08

In this episode, we sit down with Jenn Player, Vice President of Global Aviation Regulatory Affairs at Skydio and a leading voice in the drone industry, for a deep dive into autonomous drone operations. We start by unpacking the concept of electronic conspicuity and its potential to enable a fully cooperative shared airspace. Drawing from her experience flying larger UAS with the Air Force Research Lab and BNSF, Jenn shares why detect-and-avoid challenges in controlled airspace prompted her s...

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103 results

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